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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

RE: Boycott

That's a fine way to thank the band that has allowed us access to soundboards for how many years?

It's a bummer, sure, but GD has been very generous with their music - more so than perhaps any other band.

Why do you like the band? Is it because you could download free soundboards, or because the music they made was appealing to you?

I urge anybody who was considering writing (complaining and threatening) the band to rethink it. How ungrateful do you want to appear to be?

"You better give me free access to your vault...or else!"

Cool.

- Jason

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Poster: Eric Geffner Date: Nov 22, 2005 5:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason, no one, including myself, is saying anything like:
"you better give us free access to the vault"
This issue is much more complex that that simple mentality.
I was totally fine with them pulling off shows and selling them, but this act was much to much. I mean now even our audience tapes are no longer available here in a manner that would allow us to download them as lossy. It is not just the move they made, it is the way it feels, like a corporation screwing people, I do expect more from the dead. Phils wonderful book goes on and on about the imporance of letting people trade their music. After years of doing it one tape at a time, painfully and slowly and with piss poor quality where the tapes are not really all that enjoyable, we had glorious access to soundboards of every show. I am grateful that I had the chance to download every one of them from 66-73 but I wish I had downloaded some from the 80s and 90s, this is a painful move. After you have collected 400 tapes and over 500 gigs maybe you would try and fight for it also.
Everyone is entitled to their view, if you dont like mine that is fine, but at least let me express it to the band and others on this site without you making it sound like I am an entitled jerk.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:50am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> I mean now even our audience tapes are no longer
> available here in a manner that would allow us to
> download them as lossy.

That is unfortunate, for sure. I hope an arrangement can be made that brings back lossless audience recordings, in the very least. If we all asked nicely, maybe those would be brought back. I just got bent out of shape when I started reading about boycotting.

> After you have collected 400 tapes and over 500 gigs
> maybe you would try and fight for it also.

You're assuming that my stance has anything to do with my GD collection? That's silly.

> Everyone is entitled to their view, if you dont like
> mine that is fine, but at least let me express it to the
> band and others on this site without you making it sound
> like I am an entitled jerk.

Boycotts come across that way. In all the letters I've read that people have posted (I'm not sure if I read yours), I haven't read about people asking "please" - the tone seems to be more of an ultimatum.

- Jason

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason you act like this is all one-way. That we are solely at the whims of the Almighty (GDP). That they cast thunder we cover our ears, they cast sunlight, we bask in its warmth.

Well, it's not. It's a relationship. And a relationship is a two-way street that requires compromise and communication. We are getting neither here.

Yes, we got music. And the GD have got to live a lifestyle most people only dream about and they got that lifestyle from us. Yes, they do owe us something for that.

GDP needs to be reminded that this is a relationship and for that, boycott away!

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 11:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> Yes, we got music. And the GD have got to live a
> lifestyle most people only dream about and they got that
> lifestyle from us. Yes, they do owe us something for
> that.

The lifestyle they live is something they deserved. They worked hard; harder than most bands. They also did more for the fans that any other band I can think of.
They didn't charge nearly as much for tickets as they could have in the 80s and 90s - that was something nice to do for the fans. They set-up a spot in almost every show for tapers to record their shows - that was something else they did for the fans. They invested countless $1000s into their sound-system that many could argue was for the benefit of the fans. They toured probably a lot more than they wanted to, also for the fans (the last one is arguable).
How is is that you feel like they owe us? Because most of us would go to multiple shows back-to-back? Did we do that to help the band out? Or maybe because we knew that this is exactly where we wanted to be, listening to some fine music with 10,000 close friends - as many nights in a row that we could.
Do they owe us because we continue to purchase official releases? "Aw, I don't want Hundred Year Hall, but I'll buy one to help Phil out."
Do they owe us because they continue to improve their compact discs (HDCD, 5.1, etc.) that they hoped we would buy?
Do they owe us for all the wonderful times we had dancing in the sun?

All this fuss because the band pulled their shows from a single website. They didn't say we had to stop trading. They didn't say that we couldn't still download shows via FTP, BitTorrent or by any other electronic means. The only thing that we know is that the Dead wanted their soundboards pulled from the Internet Archive.

That's a fair relationship - it's no wonder that they might want some time away from us.


- Jason

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Yeah, you can't download audience shows. What's up with that. I have also read that folks are trying to stream shows and can't do that as well.

While the LMA has opened a new world to me, as I have never traded tapes, etc...I have heard Dead shows that I have never heard before. My first show was in 1977 and I have always had trouble getting good shows unitl I was turned onto the LMA.

I would pay a fee to download some of those deleted shows. I only wish the LMA and the Dead could work this out.

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Poster: lostmoon Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

who is the LMA?

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Poster: walthalljp Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

lma = live music archive

The funny thing about all of this is: I found this site after being directed to it from the philzone site looking for a download of one of the soundboard of his shows. Now if that isn't an endorsement of the online trading what is...

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Poster: Wichita Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:40am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Yep. The GD site also has the LMA as a site for their shows. I can only think that Debbie Koons is responsible for this. The GD live is back up. Is that a coincidence or what?

I wonder why we can't download audience shows?

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Poster: traindoc Date: Nov 23, 2005 3:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Live Music Archive

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Oh please Jason, no one is asking for access to the vault, we're asking to continue trading and sharing music already in our possession under guidelines the Grateful Dead established over 20 years ago.

The only difference is that twenty-odd years ago it was swapping tape lists and cassettes through the mail. Now we use the internet.

The Grateful Dead organization (I can't bring myself simply to say "The Grateful Dead" have seriously dropped the ball on this one, and to paraphrase one of their crewmember's own words after a run-in with a promoter in Philadelphia in 1973, the Grateful Dead sleep in the beds they make. Well, they made this bed and they can now sleep in it, too. The only difference is that this time, if they so choose, they can back out of it.

Consider me part of the boycott.

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Poster: bangtailpoet Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

It's not a matter of being ungrateful and not supporting the artists. For what it's worth, here is the letter I've emailed to gdstore.com, and will reiterate in a written letter tomorrow:

To Whom it may concern:

I am writing to voice my disappointment about the recent decision to remove Grateful Dead soundboard recordings from the Live Music Archive. While I fully recognize and respect the rights of the artists to do as they choose with their work, I feel this is a mistake on a number of levels. In many cases, I was willing to buy a product because I was able to hear what it sounded like before purchasing it. I have even purchased official versions of shows I already had acquired as free soundboards through the LMA because I had fallen in love with the music and felt an obligation to support the artists. Knowing that the Dead allowed so much free music to circulate in the world made me want to patronize them, and I never hesitated to buy tickets, music, or video releases. Now, I am forced to rethink my feelings.

I should also add that I feel the organization is shooting itself in the foot by alienating its most loyal fan base, and throwing away a marketing tool that has surely brought in countless thousands of dollars to the Grateful Dead.

I hope that you will see that this is a mistake and rethink your position.

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Poster: swedishhead Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:28pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

absolutely - well put! lets all send letters.

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Poster: estimatedeyes77 Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:47pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

I'm behind this protest 100%
Boycott all the way.

Guess my friends will be getting burnt copies of shows for xmas this year. No more dicks picks untill the archive is back online.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:43pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> Oh please Jason, no one is asking for access to the
vault, we're asking to continue trading and sharing music already in our possession under guidelines the Grateful Dead established over 20 years ago.

I don't recall reading anything that says we can't continue to trade soundboards. I don't even think that P2P has been addressed. I bet the band will come up with a viable (to all parties) solution to getting music to their fans. But, what good will it do to jump all over them when nobody outside of the organization knows what they have in store?

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Poster: tamb Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: AUSSIEDEADs - we protest

Remember the 23rd day of November, 2005. It really shocked me!!! 40 years (hmmm)?

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Poster: TwinD Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

And you're concerned with us appearing ungrateful? For chrissakes, it was Jerry's own daughter who said at her father's Golden Gate Park memorial service that thanks to all of us she didn't have to work at McDonald's to get through school.

The ungrateful party here is the now UNGrateful Dead.

We've supported this band for forty years.

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Nov 22, 2005 4:48pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

Jason,
The fact is that as deadheads we do feel we have a gentlemen's agreement with the band. They have allowed us access to their music and in return we have supported them in every move they have made. As a group and individually, I doubt you will find a group of fans that has been more generous in their support, both financially and spiritually, than the Deadheads. This band became the #1 concert band in the world for more than a decade because so many deadheads went to so many shows. It is not unusual to have attended more than 200 shows. We have also historically purchased every cd, album, dvd (even if we happen to have the show already) and hundreds of pieces of merchandise to support this group. Most Deadheads always have believed that in return for the access to the music we should blindly support the GD and we have done this in appreciation for that access. This new policy is a kick in the teeth to people like me who have contributed a significant amount of our income and time and emotional support to this band. I believe the outrage is justified, and that since this bond of trust has been betrayed, we have every right to use the only means we have of trying to correct this greedy act of the people that have become rich because of our love and loyalty.

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Poster: jchastain Date: Nov 23, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: PROTEST INFORMATION

> The fact is that as deadheads we do feel we have a
> gentlemen's agreement with the band.

How has this changed? We can still trade.
Access to soundboards was never the deal. The majority of these were not given out by the band, for the fans. These were leaked out, stolen, whatever. Some speculate that Healy was dismissed because he let too many people patch into the soundboard.
There are only a few people that really know what's going on. Perhaps Interet Archive was trying to get some money from the organization to help offset the huge bandwidth that 2500 shows took up? I don't know.

> They have allowed us access to their music and in return
> we have supported them in every move they have made...

Anybody know when the Archive started hosted GD shows? 2 years? That is hardly a long-standing tradition.
Until we know what is really happening, I feel that it is wise to continue to support the band. Or not - that is up to each of us. But that talk of boycotting seems childish.

> As a group and individually, I doubt you will find a
> group of fans that has been more generous in their
> support, both financially and spiritually, than the
> Deadheads.

I totally agree. Let's continue that a little longer until it becomes clear what the new rules are.

> Most Deadheads always have believed that in return for
> the access to the music we should blindly support the GD
> and we have done this in appreciation for that access.

I think that attitude was born out of the band setting up a taping section - for audience recordings. My attitude for supporting the band had NOTHING to do with the Internet Archive hosting shows. The fact that the band was cool with people taping and trading cassettes is what instilled in me the desire to reciprocate.

> This new policy is a kick in the teeth to people like me
> who have contributed a significant amount of our income
> and time and emotional support to this band. I believe
> the outrage is justified, and that since this bond of
> trust has been betrayed...

What new policy? Pulling shows from one site?

> we have every right to use the only means we have of
> trying to correct this greedy act of the people that
> have become rich because of our love and loyalty.

Again, nobody here knows what the motivation is behind the act. In the meantime, it might be time for people to start updating their trade lists and let's get the post office moving!

- Jason


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Poster: tamb Date: Nov 22, 2005 3:08pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: 2005 NOVEMBER 23

REMEMBER THIS DAY!!!